Welcome to the MamasteFit Podcast Birth Story Friday. In this episode, we have Sally who’s going to be sharing her two birth stories. Her first birth was a surprise breech during a labor induction that ended in a sudden Cesarean birth, and then her second birth was a vaginal birth after C-section (or VBAC) after showing up at the hospital when she was 7cm, very quickly pushing her baby out after that!
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Gina: Welcome to the MamasteFit Podcast. Today is Birth Story Friday, and we have Sally here who’s going to be sharing her two birth stories. Her first was a surprise breech, and then her second birth was a VBAC. So thanks for being here, Sally.
Sally: Yeah, thanks for having me!
Gina: So tell us about your first pregnancy and your preparation for birth? How was your first pregnancy?
Sally: My first pregnancy was pretty chill. I didn’t have any morning sickness. If I didn’t get a positive test, I don’t think I would have known I was pregnant apart from a missed period! It was just really a very easy pregnancy.
Gina: Did you do anything in particular during your pregnancy to prepare for birth, like take any classes? What type of birth were you hoping for?
Sally: I was hoping for a very natural, unmedicated birth. I was worried the whole time that my baby would be breech. And so I was doing a lot of reading, a lot of research. I really wanted it to be natural as possible.
Tell Us About Your First Birth/Surprise Breech!
Gina: So tell us about your labor. How did your birth go?
Sally: Yeah, so originally I was going to just wait the baby out, not be induced or anything like that. But with my husband’s schedule, to ensure that he was there, I decided to be induced. The induction got delayed. I guess the hospital was full, and so it ended up being on my due date. And I went in and they checked me, and I was 4cm. They just went ahead and broke my water, which at the time, I don’t think I did as much research with the first one as I did with the second one, and I definitely wouldn’t have chosen to be induced with the first one if I had done as much. But anyways, they broke my water and contractions pretty immediately started. They even said that I was already having a few before that, but I wasn’t really feeling them. I just thought it was her pushing up against my belly. But now I know, that that’s like early labor, or like Braxton Hicks.
So, yeah, I just labored for like 4 hours. I walked around. I got in the tub, I was on the ball. And then I guess at the shift change for the doctors, the new doctor came in and all she did was put her hand on my belly and she was like, “I need an ultrasound in here.” And I just immediately knew that she was breech. So they confirmed with the ultrasound and she was.
Gina: So what happened when they found out baby was breach?
Sally: It was so hectic and scary. I think I immediately just started sobbing. They didn’t really give us a lot of time to process. I think I was still only 4cm or 5cm. It’s not like the baby was trying to come out, but it just felt very rushed. Like, we need to get this baby out right now. C-section immediately. It wasn’t an emergency, but it just felt very rushed. And we did have time to text my family and just let them know what was going on. But they came in with the razor to get it ready, and I think we signed papers, I’m not even sure, and they kind of like, talked us through what was going to happen. And then they wheeled me away. It was very fast. I think it was like 30 minutes from the time that they told us to the time that the baby was born.
How Did You Feel After Your First Birth?
Gina: So how did you feel after your birth? What were some things that you felt were really positive for you and some things that you felt like you wish were different?
Sally: I think the only positive thing out of that birth was my daughter. Looking back, I was just so glad. I’m so glad that she was healthy and safe, but that did not go how I wanted it to. And I was devastated for a very long time. It took me a while to, I guess, mourn that and heal from it, but I’m so thankful that I have my daughter. So, I mean, there were definitely things that I would change, but that’s how it was supposed to be.
Gina: Was there anything particularly that you did between your two pregnancies to help you heal, or was it just kind of like a lingering mourning that was happening?
Sally: I listened to a lot of podcasts, actually, just, like, hearing other people’s stories and doing more research kind of helped me get pumped up for the next one and how different I wanted it to be. And I think that really helped me move past because I knew, “This is not going to end that way, that birth was that way, but there’s more opportunities to have a natural birth the way that you wanted it to be.”
Tell Us About Your Second Pregnancy
Gina: So let’s go on your second pregnancy, how did the second pregnancy go? How did you prepare for birth?
Sally: Yeah, so second pregnancy was very similar to my first. Like, no morning sickness, just very easy. I had planned to have a fit pregnancy, but I have a lot of GI issues that I won’t get into, and that pretty much prevented me from getting out of the house or up from the couch for the first half of pregnancy. I was not as fit as I had hoped to be, but I definitely got out there at the end just, like, tried to catch up.
So I did way more research. So mentally, I read a lot of books, I did a lot of squats. At the end, I prayed a lot about how I wanted it to go and just was like, asking God for it to go that way. Mostly just a lot of reading.
Gina: And then you hired a doula.
Sally: Yes! Well, that was like at last minute. I think we first emailed you at, I was already in the…I don’t even remember how far along, but we did not make it official until I was 36 weeks. It just felt very last minute. But I’m so glad that I did!
Gina: It was definitely very last minute, which is fine. It worked out. I actually had a vacation planned. I was supposed to go to Hawaii to visit my brother and then he uninvited me. So I was available for Sally’s birth.
Sally: Yeah. So thankful that your brother uninvited you! Yeah. It did work out that you just were there.
Gina: So how was the end of your pregnancy? So, for a lot of my clients, the providers get kind of weird sometimes when it comes to VBAC. How was your prenatal care?
Sally: So I had the same doctors for both pregnancies and looking back, I think it would have changed practices after a surprise breech, but I didn’t. So originally, right away, they totally seemed like they were totally fine with a VBAC. I told them immediately, like, “Yeah, I want to have a VBAC.” And since she was breech, there wasn’t any reason for them to say no. They seemed totally supportive.
And then at the end of pregnancy, I think I was probably like 36 or 37 weeks, that’s when at every appointment, they started, not scaring me, I don’t think they were trying to scare me, but they would just very loudly actually give me all the scary things about a VBAC, and they weren’t giving me any of the scary things about a repeat Cesarean. And it just felt very biased.
And then at my 39 week appointment, and I think I texted you after this, oh, no, I was like 39 and six… I went in, and the doctor that I saw, she was like, “Yeah, I’m really not comfortable with you going past 40 weeks.” And I was like, “Well, that is tomorrow, so what do you want me to do?” And she was like, “Well, I want to check you, and I want to know if you’re a good candidate for induction.” And I was like, “Yeah, I’m not really interested in being induced.” And she was like, “Well, I just need to check you so that we know if you’re favorable or not.” And I was like, “Okay, well, I’m not even 40 weeks yet. I really don’t want to be checked. I would like this baby to come on her own in a reasonable amount of time.” And so she was pretty upset about it. But she can’t make me.
Gina: She’s not going to tie you down.
Sally: No, she probably wanted to, but she can’t. So I left. But I was so upset because I wanted a provider that was supportive and wanted (a VBAC) for me, too. Not just tolerable or tolerating it. She was going to tolerate it. She had to, but she was not supporting it.
And I texted Gina, and I was like, “Are there any midwives in the area?” And you were like, “I think it’s a little too late for that.” I was just freaking out. But I calmed down. And I don’t even think you know this part, because I just planned on telling you when I was in labor, but obviously there was no time, or I was not in the mood to tell stories.
But I texted a friend who works at the practice, she works under one of the doctors. And I told her, I was like, “Yeah, this certain doctor made me cry today.” And she was like, “Why?!” and so I went into it. And then the doctor that she worked for called me. She asked if she could share with him, and he apologized on behalf of this doctor, like, one of his partners, and kind of was like, “That’s not how all of us feel…” I think that’s one of the hard things about having multiple doctors who have different opinions in a practice.
But he was like, “I would really like you to come back in tomorrow just so we can talk and I can go over things with you because I have no problem with you going over 40 weeks.” And he was like, “I would love to check you tomorrow, but we can talk about it when you get here.” And so I ended up going in on my due date.
I just felt like more peace about him as a person than I did about, like, I could tell right away the other doctor was, like, fighting me. And this one was just, he wanted me to understand, and he seemed more supportive. And so I ended up letting him check me. And while he was in there, he was like, do you want me to strip your membranes? And I was like, sure. So I was 2cm, and I think he said I was 90% effaced. And so I let him strip my membranes, which was it’s as bad as they say, or it was for me, it was very painful. And then I had to lay there for, like, 20 minutes because I was, like, about to pass out. It just hurt. And then my body just felt different. And from that point on, that whole day, my body just felt different. And I knew. I was like, “It’s tonight.” I just knew from that point on, like, there’s no way that this is so different, and it’s not going to happen.
So it is hard going to a practice where doctors have different opinions, but the practice has a standard, and they don’t want to step on each other’s toes, but they also want what’s best. I’m glad I went in for the other doctor. Just seeing him gave me more peace because it seemed like he was a little bit more supportive than the other doctor.
Gina: I think having a supportive provider makes a big difference for VBAC especially or just in general. So you’re starting to have contractions? You didn’t tell me you got a membrane sleep. It’s okay. Let’s get into your birth.
Tell Us About Your VBAC Birth!
Sally: Yeah. So went to bed. I even laid out my daughter’s clothes for the next morning because I was like, “Oh, our friends are going to need to know where her underwear is.” Because I knew I was going. I just knew. Anyway. But I went to bed and I was having, I don’t think I was having any contractions. Maybe a few, but they weren’t painful. So we went to bed, and then at like 1:00a.m., I woke up and they were immediately painful. I had a lot of Braxton Hicks at the end, and this just felt so different. I was like, this is it. But I let my husband sleep for a little bit. I got out of bed. I turned on a movie. It was this really stupid movie, and I couldn’t even watch it. And things just got really intense, really fast.
But my husband was still in bed. I had to go in there and be like, “Hi, I am in a lot of pain and I need you.” And he was just like, “I don’t know…” And I’m like, “Get up!” And so he got up and he was helping me. And I think I called Gina, and I think because I called you, you were like, “You’re not ready for me yet.” So we waited maybe another hour, and then Pear, my husband, called, and you were like, “Okay, I’m coming.”
I think while you were on your way, I was like, hands down on the bed. He was like, massaging my back. I had really bad back labor. And I just remember being like, “I want the epidural.” And he was like, “No, you don’t.” And then that was it. That was the end of it. I was like, “Yeah, you’re right. I don’t want it.”
But I’m glad that you came when you did because it was getting so intense and I was kind of freaking out. Like, my labor was so fast, but I didn’t know that it was happening fast while I was in it because I didn’t know the end. And so in my head, I was like, “Oh, my goodness. I do not know what I got myself into…” because I was thinking, like, this is just the beginning, but really it was like, the end. So I was totally regretting my decision to labor at home for as long as possible and not get any medication, but I’m glad that I did. When you’re in it, you just regret everything!
But so, yeah, then Gina got there and I was kind of out of it at this point. I was on the bed. I remember just kind of waving at you a little, and you put the TENS unit on, which was amazing, but yeah, and you weren’t really at the house with us for very long, but I got on the toilet to pee and felt like an urge to push. And you’re like, “Well, it could just be because you’re on the toilet,” you were so chill.
I was like, I have the urge to push in my head, I’m like, “I have the urge to push.” And she’s just like, “Well, just see if it goes away.” So it went away, but then it came back, and I don’t know really how long… it was for a few contractions before we decided to go. And I don’t remember who said, “I think it’s time to go.”
Gina: It was definitely me.
Sally: Were you freaking out?
Gina: I was not freaking out. You were starting to bear down a little bit more. I was like, “We should probably go. We should probably go.” At this point, I didn’t realize that there wasn’t somebody at the house for your daughter.
Sally: Oh, no.
Gina: And so Pear was trying to get in touch with your childcare, and no one was answering the phone.
Sally: That was probably the most stressful part.
Gina: And you were just, like, pushing in your chair. And I’m like, “They have a really nice rug… This rug is going to get gross.”
Sally: Every time I look at that chair now, I’m like, I just picture myself sitting there trying not to push, like my body was just (grunting)
Gina: Just like he’s, like, running out the door, banging on somebody’s window.
Sally: Yes.
Gina: Oh, man.
Sally: Like, literally, we had to drive down the street to our friend’s house. They felt so bad and was, like, banging on the door. And finally they woke up. He was like, “Come to our house! We need to go to the hospital!” And I don’t really know how long that lasted. Probably it felt longer than it was, I was freaking out. It was probably, like ten minutes.
But I looked at you and I was like, “Gina, I don’t want to have a baby in the car.” You were like, “You’re not going to have a baby in the car. You’re either going to have a baby here, or you’re going to have her at the hospital.” And I was like, in my head, I was like, “I don’t think that helps because you said you could have a baby here, and that doesn’t help! Not under these circumstances!”
Yeah. So we went to the hospital. We lived so close to it, like, I think I had two contractions in the car and then one in the parking lot before I got out of the car. And then we walk in, and this is when I just kind of lost it and also remember it because I was so mad because we walk in and Gina’s, like, “She’s, like, bearing down. She has the urge to push,” and they’re not doing anything. Like, I remember just leaning up against the wall, like at the entrance and just being like, why aren’t they doing anything? I just came in in labor, and she’s saying I have to push and they’re not moving. But finally we got up to the triage, and she made me get on the scale and everything, and I was like, “The baby is going to come out of me!”
Yeah, I was so frustrated at that point, but I was also probably, like, in transition. So it was just a whole mess of things. Anyway, so they finally got us into triage, and the doctor came in and checked me, and I was, like, 7cm, I think. And so they got me into a room. Meanwhile, they’re, like, trying to stab me with things. And I remember just, like, looking up at Pear, just being so mad because they had tried twice and failed, and I didn’t even want needles in me. And so, yeah, I just remember being mad, but I was also in a lot of pain, so it’s fine.
So we got to a room, and I was still having the urge to push, and Gina was like, “I think you should get checked again.” And so the nurse checked me, and this time it was like it felt better. She was just gentler. I don’t know, it was way better. And I think I was, like, 9.5cm, and I don’t really know what it means when they, “finish it.”
Gina: Oh, so you had an anterior lip, and so she just kind of, like, pushed it. So the front of the cervix was still kind of there, which is a normal part of dilation. And so she just pushed the cervix over baby’s head, and then it was time.
Sally: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So then I started pushing, which was the worst part.
Gina: Yeah. You didn’t push her very long.
Sally: No.
Gina: Good.
Sally: Yeah, I mean, I was glad about that, but it was hard. And I did not plan to push on my back, but I pushed on my side for a while, and then I ended up pushing her out on my back, and I didn’t plan for that. I didn’t want to push on my back, actually, but it felt the best, and so that’s what I did. But, yeah, I pushed and pushed, and then I feel like I was in the ring of fire for so long. Her head was just, like, there for so long. And then everything kind of, like, shifted in the room, and he was like, “Okay, the heart rate, the heart rate is dropping.” I think he said it was 70. Did he say what it was?
Gina: I don’t remember. Low. I can’t remember.
Sally: It was so low. He was like, “So we need to use the vacuum.” And I looked at you, like, panicking, and so I asked for one more push before the vacuum, and I did. I just remember thinking in my head, like, there is no way you’re using the vacuum on my baby. And she came out. I was just so glad that I did it without the vacuum. I did not want the vacuum.
Gina: And then because they opened the vacuum, now we have a training prop! I was like, “Well, if you’re going to throw it away, can I just take it?” And the nurse was like, “Sure. Don’t tell anyone.”
How Did You Feel About Your Second Birth?
Gina: So how was your reflection on this birth compared to your first? What were some really positive things that you pulled from it? Was there anything that you would change about this birth?
Sally: Yeah, so this birth, I feel like, is kind of rare. It kind of went exactly how I wanted it to, which I don’t think you hear very often. I don’t, at least. All the birth stories are like, “Just make a plan, but you never know…” Well, this is how I wanted it to go. It was perfect.
I wanted to labor at home for as long as possible and get to the hospital and basically push the baby out. So I don’t really have any regrets. I regret that I had a third degree tear. I was like forcing her out as fast as I could and so I’m assuming that’s why I tore so bad. Maybe, I don’t know.
But yeah, compared to the last birth, this was just exactly how I wanted it to be. And even recovery was just so much better. Even with a third degree tear. I remember being in the hospital and not even being able to slide up and down in the hospital bed because I was afraid that it was going to rip open even though it wouldn’t. And looking at my husband being like, “This is still better than recovering from a C-section,” or at least recovering from my C-section.
So, compared, they’re total opposites, but, healthy little girls in both!
Gina: It’s hard to have regrets with that.
Sally: Yes, it is!
Any Words of Advice?
Gina: So do you have any advice for anyone that might be in similar situations as you, like, finding out that their baby is suddenly breech, or if someone’s concerned that their baby is breech, and then for somebody that’s planning a VBAC?
Sally: Yeah, if you find out your baby is breech, if it’s in the moment like it was for me, you probably won’t have a lot of time to process until afterwards. But if it’s at the end of pregnancy and you find out, however your baby is born is how they are meant to be born, and you can look back and be sad or have regrets, but ultimately, that’s how it was supposed to happen. And I don’t think there’s anything that we can do to change how it’s supposed to happen. So it’s not your fault.
But for a VBAC, I would say the number one thing, and I think you already said it, is find an actually supportive provider. Like my provider ended up being a tolerant provider. I think that they were like, “We’ll allow it up until a certain point,” or, “We’re not going to let you go past a certain day,” or they have all these stipulations for it because I don’t really think that they want it, but they just have to, I’m not sure. But find someone who actually supports it and is supporting you and cheering for you and wants you to have the VBAC as bad as you want the VBAC. Because otherwise you’re going to be at the end and be freaking out, because they say they’re supportive, and then sometimes probably not all of them, but sometimes they’re not as supportive as you thought. Yeah.
And ask a lot of questions about their VBAC policies or like, the hospital policies at the beginning. Because I didn’t ask until the end. And then I was like, “Oh, I have to have continuous fetal monitoring? I had no idea. I wanted to labor in the water if I wanted to.” So I think it’s just important to find a supportive doctor and ask a lot of questions.
Gina: Well, thank you so much for sharing both your birth stories. I was really glad to be there for the second one and that it was exactly how you told me you wanted it to go. That is always really exciting. I’m glad you didn’t have your baby at home accidentally!
Sally: Me too!
Gina: I don’t particularly love catching babies because that’s not what I’m trained in, but I would have done it for you. So thank you so much for sharing your story on the podcast!
Sally: Yeah, thanks for having me!
The Importance of Scar Mobilization
Gina: In Sally’s birth story, she talked about how she had Cesarean birth and then how she had a third degree vaginal tear with her VBAC. And with both of those types of tears and surgical incisions, we do want to mobilize our scar to help support our healing and to optimize our function. And so what happens after we have any sort of trauma to the tissue, especially a laceration, or a cut, is the tissue begins to heal, and it’s usually pretty disorganized and very like, haphazard-like. And so when we do mobilization, it allows the tissues to reorganize themselves so there’s more structure to it, and then it allows the tissue layers to glide more smoothly over itself.
So with a Cesarean birth, there are seven layers that are cut through. The seventh layer is the amniotic fluid sac. So that’s not going to be there anymore. But we have six other layers that have been cut through that now are starting to stick to one another if we do no mobilization. And so if you don’t do any scar mobilization after Cesarean birth, you may feel like there’s like a pulling or a tugging sensation in your lower abdomen that could even spread to your lower back or even into your hips. And so when we mobilize our C-section scars, it allows the different tissue layers to glide over one another, and so you won’t have that same tugging or pulling sensation.
And so after you’ve had a Cesarean birth, usually the first three weeks postpartum, we can do like, scar desensitization. So just touching around the scar with different types of fabric, and that’s going to help kind of reset the sensation and the stimulus the next three weeks. So, weeks three through six, we can do desensitization, usually on the scar as it’s healed, and then eventually we can progress towards mobilization. We’re actually touching around and on the scar and moving those tissue layers around.
And it’s a slow process. There might be like a very big emotional aspect to this as well. But touching your scar and moving those layers is really important. And so if you do have a hard time touching your scar for emotional reasons, like, there’s just a lot surrounding your birth story, working with a professional, like a pelvic floor physical therapist, or even some massage therapist to mobilize that scar for you can be super helpful.
And we do have a C-section scar mobilization course that is taught by Casey Bachus, who is a two time C-section mom and physical therapist, to give you the tools to begin to mobilize your scar and help optimize your healing. Because it is really important that we mobilize those tissues. And the same thing also applies for a vaginal tear, even if it’s like a first degree tear, but especially if we have like a third or fourth degree tear, the pelvic floor has a lot of different layers within it as well. There’s three layers to your pelvic floor. We have a superficial layer, we have just a middle layer, and then we have that deep pelvic floor layer. And so sometimes we have a perineal tear or tears in other places when you give birth, we still want to mobilize those tissues as well. But instead of it being like, pushing onto your abdomen and doing circles and pinching, it’s usually just two fingers, and you pinch, and you kind of like rub them together from the inside and the outside.
And again, this is something that a pelvic floor physical therapist can walk you through as well if you’re like, “I’m not really sure what I’m doing.” And then working with a pelvic floor physical therapist after both the Cesarean and a vaginal birth can be really helpful.
The pelvic floor went through a lot during pregnancy, so regardless of how your baby was delivered, it’s important that we seek out some support after birth. So even after Cesarean birth, we still want to be working with professionals to help to optimize our healing. Because although baby didn’t come out of your vagina and out through the pelvic floor, your C-section scar is still very close and it still affects how your pelvic floor is going to function.
And so if you don’t mobilize it, it can still affect how your pelvic floor works. And especially after you’ve had a vaginal birth, the pelvic floor went through planned trauma. It went through a lot, it stretched a ton to help your baby come out. And then especially if you’ve had any sort of vaginal tear, working with a pelvic floor physical therapist to help mobilize those tissues, again, because the pelvic floor plays such a huge role in just our daily function, it helps us stabilize, it helps support our pelvic organs, it helps with sphincter control.
So if you’ve had a vaginal tear and you’re still having a lot of issues, it might be like the middle layer of your pelvic floor that’s being affected. It helps with sump pump or lymphatic drainage and then also plays a big role in our sexual function. So not just with childbirth, it also helps with sexual intercourse and for orgasms as well. We want to be able to experience pleasure in our life, and the pelvic floor is going to help you do that. So it plays a huge role. Scar mobilization is very beneficial after you give birth.
Roxanne: Sometimes, if we do not mobilize our vaginal lacerations, in subsequent births you can still tear, not necessarily because you were going to tear, but because that scar tissue is just not as strong and you just tear along that scar tissue. So that is another big benefit of doing scar mobilization in the postpartum is that it can help in subsequent births to decrease the risk of tearing.
Roxanne: So thank you for joining us today and listening to this episode. If you want more support throughout your pregnancy, join our prenatal fitness programs and childbirth education course. If you need more support after birth, join our postpartum fitness programs and education courses, which includes a scar mobilization course.
If you’re a professional, we offer birth worker and fitness trainer courses as well so you can learn from us and earn continuing education credits. Explore all of our courses on our website at mamastefit.com and you can use code Story10 to save 10% off all of our programs as our gift to you for listening to our podcast.
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